Yesterday, 8/18/9, I posted a response to Perry’s proposition and challenge – and I am waiting for his response. 

Hi Perry,

I certainly understand your fascination with DNA, this Nucleic acid being one of the two basic building blocks of life.  The Amino acids (the other building block), from the simplest structure of glycine (a molecule of five atoms of hydrogen, two atoms of carbon, two atoms of oxygen, and one atom of nitrogen), to the most complex of tryptophan (composed of twelve hydrogen, eleven carbon, two oxygen, and two nitrogen atoms) – along with the Nucleic acids – form the two dozen or so moderately complex molecules that comprise the basic ingredients of all life on Earth.

All current Earthly life is composed of cells – from the single-celled amoeba to the hundred trillion (10 to the power of 14) celled human – serving the basic function of applying energy within open and closed systems.  Thus, although on a Cosmic level, Entropy “rules” the Universe from an initial temperature of 10 to the power of 32 at 10 to the power of -43 seconds after the Big Bang (of some 13,700 Million years ago) to a current temperature of about 3 degrees Kelvin – Life on Earth resides within the Open System of our little Solar system.  One only needs to spend an entire summer day soaking up the rays of our Sun to appreciate the tremendous power of this energy source impacting an Open System over the past 4,500 Millions years of Earth’s existence.

Naturally, as soon as any discussion includes any element beyond hydrogen and helium, we are also dealing with the Cosmic events of not one, but countless numbers of Super Nova explosions creating all elements having more than two protons within the core of their atoms.  Only within the extreme temperatures of these Super Nova extravaganzas do we achieve the fusion of atoms in the range of Uranium 235 and 238 – with explosive distribution of these heavy element debris, floating within gigantic hundred light-year wide clouds from which young stars and solar systems gather their substance.

Of key importance here is the Cosmic evolution dynamic of applied energy on Macro and Micro levels.

After the Earth loses its initial atmosphere of hydrogen, helium, nitrogen, oxygen, neon, carbon, and other trace elements during the first 1,000 Million years of its existence (through “evaporation” from a rather hot Earth into space), the rapidly cooling Earth entraps the remainder of these elements under a crust of rock, explosively out-gassing the pressures through volcanoes, geysers, earthquakes, and the like – releasing vast amounts of gaseous water vapor, carbon dioxide, nitrogen, ash and dust.  Further Earth cooling facilitates the liquidization of water vapor into the vast oceans upon the face of the Earth.

Some of the out-gassed carbon dioxide, in the presence of water, forms limestone.  Most of the out-gassed oxygen quickly reacts with hydrogen to form more water or mixes with minerals within the crust, forming oxides, such as rust or sand.  Breathable oxygen – and the all important protective ozone layer – form only after life, as plants, apply energy to the extraction of carbon from carbon dioxide through the process known as photosynthesis.

During the first 1,000 Million years of the existence of the Earth, the off-gassing of elements into the second atmosphere of the Earth results in the colliding, sticking, and reacting of gasses.  Combined with the application of energy from the Sun, radioactivity from radioactive elements within the earth, electromagnetic discharge of energy through lightning, and even sound wave propagation from thunder, breaking chemical bonds – complex gases, such as ammonia and methane, combine into a collection of free atoms and simple molecules.  These simple molecules slosh around within the primordial soup creating amino acids and nucleotide bases – in short, organic matter from inorganic substance.

However, prior to the combination of amino acids and nucleotide bases into actual proteins, water molecules must find removal from the ever-lengthening chains of organic matter.  There are three primary forces that facilitate the removal of water molecules – heat, cold, and catalytic interaction.  Heat, applied along shorelines and within shallow pools, tends to evaporate the water molecules.  Cold, in the form of freezing temperatures, forces water, as ice, to leave the primordial soup, concentrating the acids and bases into stronger bonds.  Many types of clay along shorelines form the catalytic frameworks for the fabrications of larger organic molecules.

This all happens prior to the formation of proteins and the nucleotide bases of adenine (A), cytosine (C), guanine (G), and thymine (T) found with the molecule of deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA).  The fifth nucleotide base, uracil (U), does not reside within the DNA molecule; however, these five nucleotide bases are to the nucleic acids as the twenty amino acids are to the proteins.  The Big Twenty-five, so to speak, are the building blocks of life on Earth.

Again, all nucleic acids and proteins are long chain-like arrangements of carbon-rich molecules.  Moreover, carbon finds creation through the Cosmic evolution of exploding Super Nova – forging the necessary heat for the fusion of carbon from hydrogen and helium.  Thus, it is impossible ever to talk about organic carbon-based organic Life without including a discussion of inorganic Cosmic evolution.  In short – Darwin falls short of placing the Evolution of Life within the larger context of Cosmic Evolution.

Thus, Perry, in answer to your question about the so-called “Code of DNA” – the Cosmic Evolution of matter from inorganic matter to organic matter – creates a natural, non-directed, random-event occurring Code, known as DNA!  This answers your question of having someone point out just one, naturally occurring code.  I provide the answer that you seek.  By the by, I am an Atheist.

Bob Allen

In this same Bipartisan Spirit, we see that now President Barack Obama clearly embraces the Faith-based initiatives of President (Boy George) Bush by extending and amending President Bush’s Executive Order 13199 of Jan 2001 with President Obama’s Amendment of Feb 2009.  Barack’s amendment changes the name of the Office to the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships – a more liberal-sounding, politically correct name. 

I’m waiting to hear from the new head of this Office, Joshua DuBois (also Barak’s campaign director of Religious Affairs) about the full details of the original Executive Order 13199 that Barak amends.  I’ll engage in a continuous dialog with Joshua on many and varied issues as they emerge.

We are waiting to see what the original 13199 Order contains, but Barack’s amendment adds the following new sections:

1.       Services paid for with Government Funds (collected from taxes, of course) are provided with “fundamental constitutional commitments guaranteeing the equal protection of the laws and the free exercise of religion and prohibiting laws respecting an establishment of religion.”

2.       To “promote effective training for persons providing federally funded social services in faith-based and neighborhood organizations.”

3.       Promote “better use of program evaluation and research” to assure that “organizations deliver services as specified in grant agreements, contracts, memoranda of understandings, and other arrangements.”

4.       To “identify best practices and successful modes of delivering social services.”

5.       And a few other things that “effect the delivery of services by such organizations and the needs of low-income and other underserved persons in communities at home and around the world.”

These are interesting amendments to Exec Order 13199.  Moreover, we plan to follow the development of this Office – particularly the issues of entanglement of Church and State issues vis-à-vis tax monies, Program Evaluation, Best Practices and training for the delivery of services, and other stuff as it comes up.

As indicated on the AsssertiveAtheistMoments.com website – http://www.assertiveatheistmoments.com/FaithBase-1.html –

For the record, let it be known that Assertive Atheist Moments asserts that any and all tax-payer government funds used to support Faith Based efforts face a critical separation of Church and State entanglement situation….

With the above in mind, Assertive Atheist Moments is launching and helping to launch a number of national Faith Based initiatives based in the Humanist Faith of meliorism.

Stated clearly and succinctly, the Humanist Faith of meliorism is dedicated to the proposition that through Human efforts it is possible to ameliorate unjust and unfair situations across this great nation of ours – the US of A, the Leading Democracy of the Free World.

Assertive Atheist Moments is prepared to help launch the following Humanistic, Faith Based initiatives in the following the following three areas:

1. The Humanist Faith Based initiate that Gay Marriage will become the law of the land in all fifty states.

2. The Humanist Faith Based initiate that all state laws that interfere with a woman’s right to choose an abortion without being faced with undue burden, will be removed from the states that currently have such undue burdens in place.

3. The Humanist Faith Based initiative that everyone will be afforded the right to Die with Dignity. This includes establishing End of Life Centers, where a person could choose to live during their final two months of life, visited by family and friends, culminating in planned assisted suicide at the end of the two-month period of blissful and peaceful life within the End of Life Center.

Bob Allen

Chris Crawford – in the What other Topics Conversation – suggests that we have an area in which folk may discuss the pros and cons of “taking the high road of a positive message” when dealing with Theists – and discussing the pros and cons of “taking the low road of in-your face confrontation” when dealing with Theists.

See Chris’ full comment in the What other Topics area – but PLEASE add your comments within this area.  We would like to attempt to direct the deeper discussion of this topic within this area.

Let the free for all begin -

Roughly, a Symbol is something that stands for, or represents, something else.  Symbolic Form may be a collection of Symbols; the visual, audio, sensual presentation or reception of a Symbol; a learned discipline for presenting and/or receiving Symbols; and the media through which Symbols find presentation.  Thus, Symbolic Form may be art, mathematics, cinema, theatre, language, video games, television, dance – and a host of thousands upon thousands of other things.

An easy introduction to this sense of Symbols and Symbolic Form may be found in Ernst Cassirer’s Language and Myth.  This is one of those many “great little books” that everyone should have in their libraries – to read now and again on a regular basis.  Other “great little books” include The Elements of Style by William Strunk Jr. and E. B. White – The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli – The Future of an Illusion by Sigmund Freud – Animal Farm by George Orwell – Listen, Little Man by Wilhelm Reich – Why I am so Wise by Friedrich Nietzshe.

Let’s have a lively conversation on Symbols and Symbolic Form.

We also share with Ernst Cassirer the orientation that Language and Myth are deeply entwined with each other, ultimately driving patterns of Human Culture – over this 3 Million year evolutionary process.  During this process we find the evolution of religious ideas, language and conception, word magic, successive phases of religious thought, and the rich powers of metaphor – becoming ever more abstract.  A good introduction to Cassirer’s thoughts in these areas is his short work, Language and Myth.  In  the big picture, this short work is a great introduction to his large three-volume work, The Philosophy of Symbolic Form.

The Epistemology of Atheism holds that the Symbols and Symbolic Form of Atheism and the Symbols and Symbolic Form of Theism evolve over a 3 Million year time frame – with the significant orientation that the written word is no older than 100,000 years.  Thus, better than 2.9 Million years of evolutionary history for the Symbols and Symbolic Form of Atheism and for the Symbols and Symbolic Form of Theism – have been lost forever.  We do though have a slight glimpse, now and again, of this lost 2.9 Million year history.

Of primary importance to the Epistemology of Atheism is the orientation that Atheism literally means – without Theism.  The origins of Theism and the origins of Atheism happened a long, long time ago – during the lost 2.9 Million years of history.  The best that we can do today is to understand that “without Theism” means without Theism – without wild, unsupported claims as to the origins of either Atheism or Theism.

Let the conversation in this area begin.

For example – For Young Earth Creationists, who espouse among other things, that the age of the Earth is no older than 10,000 years (give or take several thousand years), the notion that the Earth is roughly 4.5 Billion years old – is seen as secular Propaganda at best, and more likely the work of the Devil and his minions.

On the other hand, the majority of scientists in areas of Geology, Biology, Cosmology, Astronomy, etc. who do see the age of the Earth as roughly 4.5 Billion years old, see the Young Earth Creationists as spouting Religious dogma that is mistaken at best, and more likely stating positions that are due to ignorance and not having a clue as to what constitutes Scientific Investigation and Methods – in short, Propaganda.

Granted, the above example is overly simplistic – but the point is – that each side in the example given above sees their side as operating out of a position of Epistemology (the Knowing of How one Knows, What one Knows) – and more importantly – sees the other side as operating out of a position of Propaganda – although both sides tend to be more polite than using the P-word, Propaganda.

For the Young Earth Creationists, the Epistemology (How does one Know What one Knows) is that of the inerrant Bible and a literal interpretation of Creation of the Earth being accomplished by God in six 24-hour days.  Their entire perspective of what is Real, falls within the logical parameters founded upon this Epistemological Base.  Everything that contradicts the Epistemology is Propaganda, although politeness usually prevents them from using the label of Propaganda.

For the Scientists who believe that the Earth is roughly 4.5 Billion years old, the Epistemology (How does one Know What one Knows) for this belief comes from various scientific paradigms from a number of fields of study.  Their entire perspective of what is Real, falls within the logical parameters founded upon this Epistemological Base.  Everything that contradicts the Epistemology is grounds for exploring the various parameters of the various paradigms (ala Thomas Kuhn’s The Structure of Scientific Revolutions) – and if the contradictions fail to disturb the various parameters of the various paradigms (without being able to meet the requirements that create a Scientific Revolution), then the contradictions to the Epistemological Base are seen as Propaganda, although again, politeness usually prevents them from using the word Propaganda.

We trust that the following discussion will involve more complicated issues than the simplistic example given above, so – Let the conversation begin.